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	<title>Comments on: Trading Freedom For Statism: Homosexual Marriage</title>
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	<link>http://www.ipandora.net/2008/06/16/644/</link>
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	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 23:50:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: JPennStar</title>
		<link>http://www.ipandora.net/2008/06/16/644/#comment-8135</link>
		<dc:creator>JPennStar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:29:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipandora.net/?p=644#comment-8135</guid>
		<description>Sure Matt,

I've just got done with my school quarter and have more time and energy on my hands and these issues concern me and are worth posting about.

In general most people around me don't care. My coworkers for the most part disagree with it because they’re older and most of them Christian (although I'm sure if they were in their 20s they wouldn't care either) but I know most of the students don't care either. Here in CA everyone has been beaten constantly with lie after lie from this is about civil rights, or marriage is merely an agreement between two people, or homosexuality is normal, etc. We are all numb to it really and that is their objective. No one realizes first what it means to a society because they fail to see how it, "effects me."

It isn't until someone gets mugged do they realize they would've like to have something to protect themselves, like a gun. It isn't until one must make the decision to keep a child or to abort do they really understand the issue. It isn't until one's young child is brutally murdered that they consider the validity of the death penalty. By the same token it isn't until you have a close friend or family member that is gay, or you yourself are, that you can better understand the issue. Nevertheless, for all of the context abortion, murder and homosexuality are wrong, regardless of the reasons. Understanding the person and situation is only necessary for the state for properly administering punishment; which is why, for example, there is first and second degree homicide.

It will not be until people start to push for polygamy and other things that people may (?) see the consequences of this ruling. The fundamental problem with homosexual "marriage" is 'life' has become a commodity. Life from the birth, development and process is not appreciated or cherished. And as I've been saying for sometime: "When life becomes a commodity, death is near." I argue this because when people care not to find a fruitful relationship, with the end being raising healthy children for the betterment and progress of a society, they are selfish and not equal to those who choose to contribute to the future of a society. This also goes for people who “shack up,” have children out of marriage, cheat on their spouse, etc.

The point of revealing the morals and laws to man, God is acting as a loving parent would do. Just as a parent tries to keep their child on the straight and narrow (because there are many distractions) so does God warn us and provide a general guide. We need not suffer certain things to figure out if it is good or not. Not only does God's word say so but all of history does too; but in our human genius here we go again and try to test the word of God. I just wish they didn't have to take my America with them.

Although I realize this is one of the moral cycles, all nations go through; I still am not pleased with it. I pray our generation can first bring hope back to our families and then our community and then our state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure Matt,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve just got done with my school quarter and have more time and energy on my hands and these issues concern me and are worth posting about.</p>
<p>In general most people around me don&#8217;t care. My coworkers for the most part disagree with it because they’re older and most of them Christian (although I&#8217;m sure if they were in their 20s they wouldn&#8217;t care either) but I know most of the students don&#8217;t care either. Here in CA everyone has been beaten constantly with lie after lie from this is about civil rights, or marriage is merely an agreement between two people, or homosexuality is normal, etc. We are all numb to it really and that is their objective. No one realizes first what it means to a society because they fail to see how it, &#8220;effects me.&#8221;</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t until someone gets mugged do they realize they would&#8217;ve like to have something to protect themselves, like a gun. It isn&#8217;t until one must make the decision to keep a child or to abort do they really understand the issue. It isn&#8217;t until one&#8217;s young child is brutally murdered that they consider the validity of the death penalty. By the same token it isn&#8217;t until you have a close friend or family member that is gay, or you yourself are, that you can better understand the issue. Nevertheless, for all of the context abortion, murder and homosexuality are wrong, regardless of the reasons. Understanding the person and situation is only necessary for the state for properly administering punishment; which is why, for example, there is first and second degree homicide.</p>
<p>It will not be until people start to push for polygamy and other things that people may (?) see the consequences of this ruling. The fundamental problem with homosexual &#8220;marriage&#8221; is &#8216;life&#8217; has become a commodity. Life from the birth, development and process is not appreciated or cherished. And as I&#8217;ve been saying for sometime: &#8220;When life becomes a commodity, death is near.&#8221; I argue this because when people care not to find a fruitful relationship, with the end being raising healthy children for the betterment and progress of a society, they are selfish and not equal to those who choose to contribute to the future of a society. This also goes for people who “shack up,” have children out of marriage, cheat on their spouse, etc.</p>
<p>The point of revealing the morals and laws to man, God is acting as a loving parent would do. Just as a parent tries to keep their child on the straight and narrow (because there are many distractions) so does God warn us and provide a general guide. We need not suffer certain things to figure out if it is good or not. Not only does God&#8217;s word say so but all of history does too; but in our human genius here we go again and try to test the word of God. I just wish they didn&#8217;t have to take my America with them.</p>
<p>Although I realize this is one of the moral cycles, all nations go through; I still am not pleased with it. I pray our generation can first bring hope back to our families and then our community and then our state.</p>
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		<title>By: matthew</title>
		<link>http://www.ipandora.net/2008/06/16/644/#comment-8134</link>
		<dc:creator>matthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 13:28:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipandora.net/?p=644#comment-8134</guid>
		<description>Thanks for writing all these articles the last few days J. I've been kinda lonely over here and had no idea I just had to slow down my posting to get you to come back.

I've been watching this issue in California and being so far away have not been able to get a read on the pulse of the people.

What are your peers and those you're around at School and Work thinking about this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for writing all these articles the last few days J. I&#8217;ve been kinda lonely over here and had no idea I just had to slow down my posting to get you to come back.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been watching this issue in California and being so far away have not been able to get a read on the pulse of the people.</p>
<p>What are your peers and those you&#8217;re around at School and Work thinking about this?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JPennStar</title>
		<link>http://www.ipandora.net/2008/06/16/644/#comment-8132</link>
		<dc:creator>JPennStar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 04:09:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipandora.net/?p=644#comment-8132</guid>
		<description>Thanks.

The reason I argue it is statism is because the state took into its hands this decision and completely ignored the voters. The homosexual minority of course does not care who grants them this, whether it be the state fiat or the peoples' vote. But god forbid the majority pushing for opposite sex marriage try to do this, no, they must go through the voting process.

I do however, believe this trend is coming to an end. One by one the liberal establishment is dieing off and although there are still people who hate God (in general) people on both sides are becoming more reasonable. My generation in general is more conservative. This doesn't necessarily mean Christian but at least they will sooner come to see the values of family are very important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>The reason I argue it is statism is because the state took into its hands this decision and completely ignored the voters. The homosexual minority of course does not care who grants them this, whether it be the state fiat or the peoples&#8217; vote. But god forbid the majority pushing for opposite sex marriage try to do this, no, they must go through the voting process.</p>
<p>I do however, believe this trend is coming to an end. One by one the liberal establishment is dieing off and although there are still people who hate God (in general) people on both sides are becoming more reasonable. My generation in general is more conservative. This doesn&#8217;t necessarily mean Christian but at least they will sooner come to see the values of family are very important.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay @ OFR</title>
		<link>http://www.ipandora.net/2008/06/16/644/#comment-8131</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay @ OFR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 03:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipandora.net/?p=644#comment-8131</guid>
		<description>I can't really tell whether this is statism as you suggest or the continuing trend of anarchy in the name of autonomy. But I liked reading your thoughts on the matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t really tell whether this is statism as you suggest or the continuing trend of anarchy in the name of autonomy. But I liked reading your thoughts on the matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Neil</title>
		<link>http://www.ipandora.net/2008/06/16/644/#comment-8126</link>
		<dc:creator>Neil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 01:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ipandora.net/?p=644#comment-8126</guid>
		<description>This is accelerating more and more quickly.  The broader church is asleep and can't see how their freedom of speech is about to disappear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is accelerating more and more quickly.  The broader church is asleep and can&#8217;t see how their freedom of speech is about to disappear.</p>
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